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Thread: Pay fixation after promotion in the old scale

  1. #1
    Junior Member anilkgupta is on a distinguished road
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    Post Pay fixation after promotion in the old scale

    Sir,
    I am a Central Govt. Employee presently working as Asstt. Audit Officer in Indian Audit & Accounts Department and as per recommendation of 5th Pay Commission the hierarchy in my department was as under:-
    Post & Cadre Pay Scale
    Audit Clerk 3050-75-3950-80-4590
    Auditor 4500-125-7000
    Sr. Auditor 5500-175-9000
    Section Officer (Group B Non Gazetted) 6500-200-10500
    Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) 7450-225-11500

    My Hqrs office i.e. CAGs Office has intimated that due to implementation of 6th pay commission report the post of Section Officer has been abolished w.e.f. 01/01/2006 therefore now the departmental examination passed candidates may directly be promoted to the post of Asstt. Audit Officer.
    I was promoted as Sr. Auditor on 01/08/2008 and further promoted as Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) on 01/04/2010 and I opted the option on 01/10/2008 to continue to draw pay in the existing scale until I vacate the post of Sr. Auditor.
    Now my department is going to fix my pay as on 01/04/2010 in the scale of Section Officer i.e. 6500-200-10500 and accordingly further fixation in the new pay structure. In my opinion as I did not work on the post of Section Officer therefore the act of my department to fix me in the scale of Section Officer ( 6500-200-10500) is not supported by rules. I should be fixed in the old scale of Asstt. Audit Officer (7450-225-11500) first and accordingly refixed in the new pay structure (9300-34800 with Grade pay of Rs. 4800) from the date of my promotion as Asstt. Audit Officer.
    kindly convey your expert comments on my case.

  2. #2
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by anilkgupta View Post
    Sir,
    I am a Central Govt. Employee presently working as Asstt. Audit Officer in Indian Audit & Accounts Department and as per recommendation of 5th Pay Commission the hierarchy in my department was as under:-
    Post & Cadre Pay Scale
    Audit Clerk 3050-75-3950-80-4590
    Auditor 4500-125-7000
    Sr. Auditor 5500-175-9000
    Section Officer (Group B Non Gazetted) 6500-200-10500
    Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) 7450-225-11500

    My Hqrs office i.e. CAGs Office has intimated that due to implementation of 6th pay commission report the post of Section Officer has been abolished w.e.f. 01/01/2006 therefore now the departmental examination passed candidates may directly be promoted to the post of Asstt. Audit Officer.
    I was promoted as Sr. Auditor on 01/08/2008 and further promoted as Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) on 01/04/2010 and I opted the option on 01/10/2008 to continue to draw pay in the existing scale until I vacate the post of Sr. Auditor.
    Now my department is going to fix my pay as on 01/04/2010 in the scale of Section Officer i.e. 6500-200-10500 and accordingly further fixation in the new pay structure. In my opinion as I did not work on the post of Section Officer therefore the act of my department to fix me in the scale of Section Officer ( 6500-200-10500) is not supported by rules. I should be fixed in the old scale of Asstt. Audit Officer (7450-225-11500) first and accordingly refixed in the new pay structure (9300-34800 with Grade pay of Rs. 4800) from the date of my promotion as Asstt. Audit Officer.
    kindly convey your expert comments on my case.
    Dear Friend,

    Your query is not clear. What is the logic of exercising option to elect revised pay structure from 01.10.2008 when you already earned a promotion to the post of Sr.Auditor on 01.08.2008 after the date of implementation of the recommendations of SCPC.

  3. #3
    Junior Member anilkgupta is on a distinguished road
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    Default pay fixation

    Respected Sir,

    I am to clear hear that I want to adopt the new pay structure from the date of my promotion as AAO i.e. 01/10/2010 therefore I exercised the option under the provision of Rule 5 of Revised Pay Rules 2008 and elect the revised pay structure from the date I vacates the post of Sr. Auditor i.e. the date on which I will promoted to the post of AAO therefore my query is still stand that what will I get on the promotion of AAO.
    Thanks for reply

    ANIL


    Quote Originally Posted by tvenkatam View Post
    Dear Friend,

    Your query is not clear. What is the logic of exercising option to elect revised pay structure from 01.10.2008 when you already earned a promotion to the post of Sr.Auditor on 01.08.2008 after the date of implementation of the recommendations of SCPC.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by anilkgupta View Post
    Sir,
    I am a Central Govt. Employee presently working as Asstt. Audit Officer in Indian Audit & Accounts Department and as per recommendation of 5th Pay Commission the hierarchy in my department was as under:-
    Post & Cadre Pay Scale
    Audit Clerk 3050-75-3950-80-4590
    Auditor 4500-125-7000
    Sr. Auditor 5500-175-9000
    Section Officer (Group B Non Gazetted) 6500-200-10500
    Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) 7450-225-11500

    My Hqrs office i.e. CAGs Office has intimated that due to implementation of 6th pay commission report the post of Section Officer has been abolished w.e.f. 01/01/2006 therefore now the departmental examination passed candidates may directly be promoted to the post of Asstt. Audit Officer.
    I was promoted as Sr. Auditor on 01/08/2008 and further promoted as Asstt. Audit Officer (Group B Gazetted) on 01/04/2010 and I opted the option on 01/10/2008 to continue to draw pay in the existing scale until I vacate the post of Sr. Auditor.
    Now my department is going to fix my pay as on 01/04/2010 in the scale of Section Officer i.e. 6500-200-10500 and accordingly further fixation in the new pay structure. In my opinion as I did not work on the post of Section Officer therefore the act of my department to fix me in the scale of Section Officer ( 6500-200-10500) is not supported by rules. I should be fixed in the old scale of Asstt. Audit Officer (7450-225-11500) first and accordingly refixed in the new pay structure (9300-34800 with Grade pay of Rs. 4800) from the date of my promotion as Asstt. Audit Officer.
    kindly convey your expert comments on my case.
    Your case will be covered under Rule 11 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 which prescribes the methodology for "Fixation of pay in the revised pay structure subsequent to the 1st day of January 2006". Under this rule, the existing basic pay as on 1/4/2010 will be the crucial figure which will decide the revised pay. The fitment table of the pre-revised scale which you were holding as on 1/4/2010 will be used to determine the new band pay. To this the corresponding Grade Pay of the pre-revised table will be added.

    For eg. If you were drawing Rs. 7500 in the scale of 6500-10500 as on 1/4/2010, then the fitment table of 6500-10500 will be used and your band pay fixed at 13,950 plus GP 4600 (since 6500 has been upgraded to 7450). However, if you were drawing 7675 in the scale of 7450-11500 as on 1/4/2010 then fitment tables for 7450-11500 will be used for determining the band pay which will be 14,280, plus you will be given GP 4600.

    So the crucial factor is the basic pay which you were drawing and the scale which you were holding, as on 1/4/2010 to determine the revised pay.

    Victor
    (pva)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kanaujiaml is on a distinguished road
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    Dear friends. There is an anamolly existing after SCPC and that is in respect of fixation of pay of promotees and the direct recruits. Where advantage of upgradation is given by SCPC, it is only in respect of higher grade pay, pay band pay remaining the same. This is the main reason for confusion as well. In most cases, the basic pay of promotees becomes less than the direct recruits, particularly when revised pay fixation is sought from a date after 01.01.06. I have found that when option is exercised for fixation of pay w.e.f. 01.01.06, atleast one increment every year is assured in most cases. After 01.01.06, on regular promotion (not upgradation) 3 % of pay band pay becomes available as increment together with higher grade pay. Am I wrong ?

  6. #6
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    I Joined I A & AD department as peon in the year 2000 and i am promoted as Auditor from peon through departmental exam in the month of November 2008. As per latest orders on revision of option of spc, i wanted to fix my pay from the date of promotion i.e., after vacating the post as peon. But, the administration denies to accept the option stating that i was not promoted between 1.1.2006 and date of notification of spc. How long one can stay in the Pre-revised scale?


    please help
    Last edited by swaminathan; 14-12-2010 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaminathan View Post
    I Joined I A & AD department as peon in the year 2000 and i am promoted as Auditor from peon through departmental exam in the month of November 2008. As per latest orders on revision of option of spc, i wanted to fix my pay from the date of promotion i.e., after vacating the post as peon. But, the administration denies to accept the option stating that i was not promoted between 1.1.2006 and date of notification of spc. How long one can stay in the Pre-revised scale?


    please help
    There are two options involved here. One is the option to switchover from 5CPC to 6CPC. Second is the option of pay fixation on account of promotion. Kindly indicate whether you have switched over to 6CPC or not.

    Victor

  8. #8
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    i am already switched over to the 6pc. now i revise my option on switch over from 5pc to 6pc from the date of promotion. i.e., first option as mention by you.
    Last edited by swaminathan; 14-12-2010 at 02:09 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaminathan View Post
    i am already switched over to the 6pc. now i revise my option on switch over from 5pc to 6pc from the date of promotion. i.e., first option as mention by you.
    If you opt to switchover to 6CPC w.e.f. the date of promotion then you will NOT be entitled to any arrears for the period Jan 2006 to Nov 2008. This will be a huge loss and may not be beneficial to you. Kindly compare the gain and loss if you want to change the option and then take a suitable decision.

    Victor

  10. #10
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    Date of appointment:05.07.2000 as Peon
    date of promotion: 12.11.2008 as Auditor through Departmental Auditor Examination.
    I was promoted as Auditor on 12.11.2008, if i am allowed to continue in the pre-revised scale, Rs.4500*1.86 =8370 will be my initial pay as Auditor. my office is not accepting my revised option (w.r.t. Om dated 05.07.2010) stating that i am promoted after the date of notification of the sixth pay commission ie., 29.08.2008. i ready to forgo (repay) the arrears and difference in pay upto November 2008. some amount will remain even after repaying the arrears (the difference of amount from Nov.2008). Is it not possible to remain in the pre-revised upto 12.11.2008? " Pay fixation after promotion in the old scale" .
    Last edited by swaminathan; 14-12-2010 at 08:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaminathan View Post
    Date of appointment:05.07.2000 as Peon
    date of promotion: 12.11.2008 as Auditor through Departmental Auditor Examination.
    I was promoted as Auditor on 12.11.2008, if i am allowed to continue in the pre-revised scale, Rs.4500*1.86 =8370 will be my initial pay as Auditor. my office is not accepting my revised option (w.r.t. Om dated 05.07.2010) stating that i am promoted after the date of notification of the sixth pay commission ie., 29.08.2008. i ready to forgo (repay) the arrears and difference in pay upto November 2008. some amount will remain even after repaying the arrears (the difference of amount from Nov.2008). Is it not possible to remain in the pre-revised upto 12.11.2008? " Pay fixation after promotion in the old scale" .
    Yes it is possible to retain the old scale.

    As per first proviso to Rule 5 of CCS(RP) Rules, 2008 a govt servant can continue to draw pay in the old scale till he vacates his post.

    So you can continue to draw pay in the old scale of Peon and switchover to 6CPC w.e.f. date of promotion on 12/11/2008. Your pay will be fixed at Rs. 8370 + GP 2400. However, arrears for the period 1/1/2006 and 11/11/2008 will not be payable.

    Victor

  12. #12
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Dear Friend,

    Further to what was stated by Mr. Victor, it may be noted that the last date for exercising such option is 31.12.2010 vide order at link below.
    http://www.finmin.nic.in/the_ministr...008_050710.pdf

  13. #13
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    dear seniors,
    my option was rejected on the following grounds.

    1. one should satisfy the both the conditions, it is not a separate conditions- refering to the gazatte notification date 29.08.2008 (page 33) Rule 5. Drawal of pay in the revised pay structure. (Provided that.............. Provided further).

    2. you can exercise the revised option upto 31.12.2010. the date of promotion should be between 01.01.2006 and 31.08.2009.

    Is their interpretation is right?

    In the present O.M. dated 05.07.2010 it seems to be a separate conditions with different nature. why the provisos interlinked?
    I am loosing hope of getting the benefit. i don't know, how to proceed?

    thanks
    swaminathan.
    Last edited by swaminathan; 18-12-2010 at 09:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Victor is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaminathan View Post
    dear seniors,
    my option was rejected on the following grounds.

    1. one should satisfy the both the conditions, it is not a separate conditions- referring to the gazatte notification date 29.08.2008 (page 33) Rule 5. Drawal of pay in the revised pay structure. (Provided that.............. Provided further).

    2. you can exercise the revised option up to 31.12.2010. the date of promotion should be between 01.01.2006 and 31.08.2009.

    Is their interpretation is right?

    In the present O.M. dated 05.07.2010 it seems to be a separate conditions with different nature. why the provisos interlinked?
    I am loosing hope of getting the benefit. i don't know, how to proceed?

    thanks
    swaminathan.
    The two proviso's are different and not interlinked. While the first proviso covers cases where a govt. servant may elect to switchover to 6CPC AFTER 29.8.2008, the second proviso covers cases where the switchover can be BEFORE 29.8.2008 (i.e. between 1.1.2006 and 29.8.2008).

    The OM dated 5.7.2010 gives an opportunity to everyone to revise his initial option (http://www.finmin.nic.in/the_ministr...008_050710.pdf). There is no explicit condition in the OM that the date of promotion should be between 1.1.2006 and 31.8.2008.

    Victor

  15. #15
    Senior Member tvenkatam is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaminathan View Post
    dear seniors,
    my option was rejected on the following grounds.

    1. one should satisfy the both the conditions, it is not a separate conditions- refering to the gazatte notification date 29.08.2008 (page 33) Rule 5. Drawal of pay in the revised pay structure. (Provided that.............. Provided further).

    2. you can exercise the revised option upto 31.12.2010. the date of promotion should be between 01.01.2006 and 31.08.2009.

    Is their interpretation is right?

    In the present O.M. dated 05.07.2010 it seems to be a separate conditions with different nature. why the provisos interlinked?
    I am loosing hope of getting the benefit. i don't know, how to proceed?

    thanks
    swaminathan.
    Dear Friend,

    The two provisos under Rule 5 of CCS (RP) Rules, 2008 are independent of each other. Your office is mis-interpreting the rules to your dis-advantage. You may have to first try and understand the provisions of the rules and then impress upon the authorities concerned with the right interpretation of the rules concerning your demand. Do not loose your hope.

  16. #16
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    dear sir,

    The revised option issue is still pending in my office.

    As per your guidance, i studied the provisions and searched for logically connecting orders. i found the following orders for the employees who exercised option to continue in the pre-revised scale :

    1. The intention of rule-5 of CCS revised pay rules 2008 available in the Explanatory note- 6pc notification.
    1. separate DA orders for pre-revised scale.
    2. Allowance orders
    -Transport allowance
    -HRA
    -Travelling allowance etc.,
    All allowances orders are effect from 1, september 2008 only. there is a clause available for pre-revised scale.
    " In respect of those employees who opt to continue in the pre-revised scale of pay................"

    Even after submitting all these orders, i am unable to convince my office.

    Is there any other orders/clarification available to support my issue?

    please help.


    thanks


    swaminathan

  17. #17
    Junior Member rameshwarsingh is on a distinguished road
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    As per Second Schedule of ROP 2008 (ii) it stated that " ...... hereby elect to continue on the existing scale of pay of my substantive/officiating post mentioned below until: the date of my next increment. The date of my subsequent increment raising my pay to Rs. ... I vacate or cease to draw pay in the existing scale. The date of my promotion to ...." If you opt in the prescribed form i.e. The date of my promotion to AAO, in my opinion C&AG could not turn down your option paper as C&AG is not a competent authority to amend option form prescribed by Ministry of Finance. However, your option paper should reach to your Head of Office by 31-12-2010. Regarding profit and loss on arrears of pay in case DOPT OM 22-12-2010 is applied in the pay fixation the loss might be recoup in 3 years and in case DOPT OM 22-12-2010 is not applied it could not be recouped till 7cpc in my opinion.

  18. #18
    Junior Member swaminathan is on a distinguished road
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    Kind attn: Shri.Victor & tvenkatam.
    dear sir,

    The revised option issue is still pending in my office.

    As per your guidance, i studied the provisions and searched for logically connecting orders. i found the following orders for the employees who exercised option to continue in the pre-revised scale :

    1. The intention of rule-5 of CCS revised pay rules 2008 available in the Explanatory note- 6pc notification.
    1. separate DA orders for pre-revised scale.
    2. Allowance orders
    -Transport allowance
    -HRA
    -Travelling allowance etc.,
    All allowances orders are effect from 1, september 2008 only. there is a clause available for pre-revised scale.
    " In respect of those employees who opt to continue in the pre-revised scale of pay................"

    Even after submitting all these orders, i am unable to convince my office.

    Is there any other orders/clarification available to support my issue?

    please help.


    thanks


    swaminathan

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